Getting Real about Race: How We Embrace Diversity and Reject Division | S2 E5

Steve Alessi  0:09  
All righty, we want to welcome you to the family business podcast because let's face it, family is everybody's business. And so there's some things that we're talking about today with my dear friend Allen Paul, and the two of us are just going to go ahead and discuss some issues that we think is pretty important, because it's going to be connected to the family. But here's what we're trying to do. There's Sunday environments where my wife and I and my son, we get to speak and preach on a regular basis, sermons per se. But what we're doing here at this family business podcast is being able to share things with you that we're not able to share on Sunday. So specifically today, Allen, let's, this is very interesting, because we're going to hit the race issue. And look at it from the standpoint of families working together. In our case, it's ministry. But it could be in any other form of business, where you have black families working alongside Hispanic families, or working alongside of white families. And isn't it interesting, the white guy has the black cup and the black guy has the white cup. 

Allen Paul  1:23  
That works perfectly. Unity.

Steve Alessi  1:26  
Diversity, for sure, before your very eyes. But I just want to chat with you a little bit about this, Allen,  because racial divide has become just so rampant. It's, it's... I don't know what happened last year that it seemed like, we were doing so good. And I know there's always pockets of racism that pops its ugly head up. But last year, it just became just so dark and ugly, that it.... I don't know if it moved us along in terms of racial relationships, and that we were able to really connect with. But it seems like, you know, maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like we've been set back a little bit. 

Allen Paul  2:16  
I don't think you're wrong. Pastor. I think, number one, the first time that came to mind when you said what happened last year, I think everything came to a head.... they say it all the time, you know, like where all the things that are simmering beneath the surface? It came to a head but in a sense, we've been we've been moving in a direction away from truth and away from rational understanding of each other for a while. And I think a lot of us, in both in the kingdom and in church and in the culture - America - it was easy to simply say, Okay, well, if I just don't pay attention,  if I just live my life, and I don't really talk to my neighbor, talk to  -  like we're about to talk about families and ministry. If I didn't say, you know what, let me really get involved with my friends. Let me really get to know these people before there's a situation, that's a problem no matter what's going on in your world. If you are just trying to live your life in a bubble, and not interact and have relationship - that's the core of our church. 

Steve Alessi  3:19  
Yeah. 

Allen Paul  3:20  
Then when something does happen, it's super obvious that you had no real connection with the people around you, you didn't try to understand them, you didn't want to understand them. And I'm saying from no matter what culture you're in, right? No matter what your racial, ethnicity, whatever. If you're not trying to connect with people, and really get to know what your world is about, and really try to love other people, when that storm arrives, it's gonna reveal that you you don't really know the people around you. And then we'll grab on to all these other things that "okay, well, maybe I need to get even more inside myself and maybe become more blind maybe I just need to hide from the world or, you know, that's just us and no more, now I'm just gonna protect myself.

Steve Alessi  4:00  
 Right,

Allen Paul  4:00  
 And so I feel like that's, you know, me 2020 was a crazy year in so many ways. But to me, that's what I think it revealed. It's that  we -  if we're not valuing relationships, period, it doesn't matter what's happening, we're going to find ourselves at that impasse.

Steve Alessi  4:16  
Yeah, and, you know, with relationships, placing a value on them like we do at our church and I  -  I mean, I was just talking to somebody yesterday about employment here in the church, and you came on staff this year, full time. You've been on part time staff for quite a few years. How many?

Allen Paul  4:32  
Oh gosh,  11? Yes, at least 11. Yeah, I think coming on 12 now. 

Steve Alessi  4:36  
So you've been around us on staff. So I'm talking to this gentleman, and I'm letting him know - I said "Listen, before we can do anything, you know, moving forward, I really need you to connect with the other staff members that are part of our team. And it was not like a "do it because I don't want to deal with you," but it was "Do it because if you're going to fit in, then you need to know the different people". So when we say something about relationships here in our church, that are really core values, not just to the church, but I find are the core values of our staff members. Because you can't buy into the core value of the organization without sharing that core value already in your own life. 

Right. 

So we do make value...we do value relationship, make them a priority. So I think, which is the reason why I was so taken back last year, by this thing, exploding the way it did is because the focus that I've had in our church and would teach on it, has been relationship. And if you're going to be in relationship, then you can expect problems along the way...

Allen Paul  5:54  
 absolutely...

Steve Alessi  5:55  
 that are going to try to pull us apart. So knowing that it wasn't the color of people's skin, that would cause me to shy away from any kind of relationship. The truth of the matter is, it was a person's values. Because I know in our church, and especially on our team, since here's, here's what happens here at our church. I got my family working in the ministry, and you have your family, both - two of you are full time in the ministry, your daughter helps us on the platform in the ministry, your wife has helped us for many years behind the scenes. So we're all - both in the ministry serving one another in serving this great church family that we have. So we didn't see -  I didn't see an issue of black and white. Everybody that's on our team's got to have the three C's. It's got to be first character. 

Allen Paul  6:50  
Yeah. 

Steve Alessi  6:51  
All right, which means they got to be living the same kind of values, godly values, and not just talking it on Sunday, but living it. Then there is the competency. Well, they got to know their trade, like you know, your keyboard. They gotta know their trade. 

Allen Paul  7:08  
Yeah. 

Steve Alessi  7:09  
And then there's chemistry. And there has to be that ability to connect with one another in the church, and especially on the staff. People that don't have our chemistry. They're here today and they're going tomorrow. 

Allen Paul  7:21  
Yeah. 

Steve Alessi  7:22  
And when they leave, they've kind of mess things up. So you don't want the wrong chemistry. So we value that. Which is why when I saw everything occurring last year, I was so taken back that it just like boom, flash pan there it goes. Now we're in this eruption of exposing and claiming that there's such a divide between the races. And Allen, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're wrong. Maybe we're wrong, because it doesn't seem like there's been that divide amongst us. 

Allen Paul  7:54  
Okay, I love - here's the funny thing about it. And I say funny and ironic. The ironic thing is, what you just said is that maybe we're wrong. The fact that you're able to say that...the humility to say maybe we're looking at this wrong is exactly what's missing in the entire conversation, when it comes to why we keep having these these these issues, these flare ups, these problems. Now, okay, number one there, make sure I am not minimizing because you know, we don't know who's listening to this...I'm not minimizing the actual problem of police brutality. I'm not minimizing systematic injustice when there is there, right? We're not  - we're not minimizing the work that civil rights leaders for years that allowed me, my very family - I love telling the story real quick Pastor.... I think we talked about it back in the fatherhood series we did about my grandmother and grandfather, growing up in segregated Georgia, my grandmother putting me to college and then my brother and my sister and my oldest son through college on a social worker salary. First black woman to be a leader in the human resources department up there in Georgia right over there where the farm is now. So I have history watching how our people have worked hard to overcome  injustices true injustices. So all that said, that's the big caveat. That fact does not change what you just said, which is, if I get so prideful to think that I know what's right and wrong, that I know how to handle every situation. I know how to handle police brutality, I know how to handle racism, I know how to look at you and I can judge you based on the color of your skin right away. "Oh, this is a guy that's done this and then that he must have this view of life." And I'm not humble enough to say "Wait, maybe I'm wrong, maybe... maybe I should give Pastor Steve a second chance. But I should give this guy a chance to actually get to know them. That humility is why I think it works. Because you just said it. In the chemistry of our church, we have very much of accountability spirit, we have a spirit of accountability, where we look at each other, we look at you and I look at myself, I say, am I doing the right thing? Am I following through? Am I doing what I'm supposed to do? And I -  I've recognized that culture when I first came on, it's amazing. We're talking about 11- 12 years now, I mean, Marcus was like, I think it's....Yeah, they were just starting, you know, 12, 11 years old now. You know, I don't even like thinking about it because the kids are growing.

Steve Alessi  10:10  
Makes...

Allen Paul  10:10  
 Yeah, it makes me feel super old. 

Steve Alessi  10:11  
All that gray hair on your beard's starting to show even more, buddy.

Allen Paul  10:14  
Exactly, exactly. Yeah, they each one has a name, each one has -  I won't say which one - 

Steve Alessi  10:20  
As many as the stars....

Allen Paul  10:27  
But the fact is, is that I really recognize that coming on staff is that I didn't feel that -  I loved it  - funny that you're saying those "C's" , I probably have heard them, but I haven't heard them in years. And yet, it's immediately apparent to me, oh, I grew my character by being a member of this church and my children and my family recognized that. I realized that I had to be competent, if I want to stay employed here, not only competent in terms of my job, but also competent in terms of feeling like, I have a role to play, and I can play it and I can do it right. And it's not based on what you think I am, is what I'm doing, it's my actions. My actions speak a lot louder than my words or my feelings or all that other stuff. And then the third thing you said with the chemistry,  like, that is such -  I think -  I've said this about Metro a lot. I feel like there's a lot of people who came from other places. We all come from other places. Let's face it, like most Miami is trans- You know, we all come from someplace usually in Miami, it's only 100 years old. Yeah. So we all come from different places, from different ministries, and  different experiences. But we all find here, our chemistry and our connection to people who believe in what we believe and share the same values. And again, if I was going back to try to find something that just because of the way I look and find people that look like me, and assume that I share the same values? That never works, it doesn't matter again, black, white, Hispanic, Asian, Native American  -  values and skin color do not automatically agree. That's not the same thing. And so for me to find a place that I knew my values were shared, and I could continue to work on myself. And again, I go back to what you said, Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I do need to shift some things, maybe I do need to change some things. That spirit is what I think is missing. That's why we had the flash pan effect. Because if people stopped and said, from every walk of life from conservative to liberal, maybe I'm wrong. 

Steve Alessi  12:17  
Yeah. 

Allen Paul  12:18  
Those three words would have fixed a ton of things last year. And of course, that's not what happened.

Steve Alessi  12:23  
And the fact that our kids work together today, okay? They've been in relationship for over 11-12 years. Yeah, as long as you've been here, they've grown up together. We haven't had a, a issue with our kids, just because of the color of their skin. And... I'm afraid - and this kind of irks me, even with some people in the body of Christ, okay, what kind of irks me is they want to bring up the past. The mistakes of the forefathers, they want to bring that up. And every time they bring it up, it's like - even some of their own experience. I hear them say, "Well, you know, when I was pulled over as a teenager, I was yanked out of the car because of the color of my skin,  my white friends weren't but I was," They share some of those stories. And what that does is, it's like the crazy uncle, that you tell your kids to stay away from? The moment you mention he's crazy and tell them what they've done in the past, they start to form this opinion in their mind about that uncle, and they're afraid to get around their uncle. 

Allen Paul  13:38  
Yeah. 

Steve Alessi  13:39  
If we're not careful. We're perpetuating a issue from the past, into the present, which then we'll take it into the future as we share some of those hurts and the pain of the past. Yes, every generation has to get through their, their demons, they have to fight their demons. But even God says, Listen, in the Old Testament, there was "I'm going to pass on the sins of the father to two or three generations down" 

Allen Paul  14:13  
Right.  

Steve Alessi  14:13  
But then in Christ, that's no longer being passed down. In Christ, our relationship with Christ, what happened in the past is not passed on to the present or the next generation. 

Allen Paul  14:26  
That's big. 

Steve Alessi  14:27  
Why are we doing it? 

Allen Paul  14:28  
That's, that's so profound Pastor because I think there's so much - I'll just say.... how my head works.... There was a picture in my head of a person on the operating table, right? And so I'm thinking of the doctor coming in and operating. You've been there, you've been there. And I'm thinking of a person then outside of that operating table, yelling at the person on the table and the doctor. Hey, no, that's not the way you're supposed to do it. This is what happened to me last time! Don't do that. Don't do this. Don't do that. And what I see is I see people barging into the operating room where God is working on people's hearts. Legitimately, like you said, If I've been pulled over, if I've been this is a victim of oppression, if I've been a victim, don't come in and tell me how I'm supposed to heal. But here's the problem. When I keep rehearsing my pain, the healing never gets finished. So we've had people barging in on people that are getting healed, and we've had people that are healed, that are rehearsing their injury, rehearsing their wounds. And instead of getting off the operating chair, now I'm healed, now they're ripping off the bandage and saying, Look where I got scarred. And I think you've got to have a balance, we have to have people that again, we've seen the past. And like I said, I'm so appreciative of you addressing the issue, because I love the fact that we're not scared of it. I wrote this down in my notes for another thing, that God's not scared of arguments. 

Steve Alessi  15:57  
No. 

Allen Paul  15:58  
God is not like "Oh no, what if they, what if they jump into that racial thing, and they find out that the church has not always been perfect about racism?" And I'm like, God's not worried about that. He handled Jews and Samaritans with no problem, one of the most divisive cultural things.  He sent the Son of God in the middle of a culture war, and a race war. No problem, talking to the Samaritan woman. So God is not scared of this issue. And so what I really loved is  - again is what you said  - is that we can look at real problems without rehearsing and then letting the next generation become enslav - I have to use the word -  enslaved if to that same mentality. That's the key. It's not that we didn't know what happened. It's, are we going to become chained to it? 

Steve Alessi  16:46  
Yeah. 

Allen Paul  16:47  
And I've lived my life, Pastor, honestly. This is -  I mean, it's on a podcast. So it's on wax now. I've lived my life in a way that I've said, I will never be chained up to what I thought the past was supposed to be ,nor what I believe the future is going to be. I want to live openly so that my future is always ahead of me. Wide open, new things possible for me, I'm not going to be -  because the old me....

Steve Alessi  17:14  
Yeah.

Allen Paul  17:15  
...both the things that happened to me and the things that I made happen? If I just let that sit on me for the rest of my life, my past is, like you said, My future is going to be totally linked to that.

Steve Alessi  17:24  
 No.

Allen Paul  17:25  
And I can't let that happen. As a culture?  Again, I can't speak for every African American, I can gonna speak for myself. I'm not gonna let that happen. Now, do I need to heal from some things? Sure. Do we need to heal for something? Sure. But I'm not going to rip the bandage off of the healing once it takes place. And that's what I think we need to meet allow us - I think that's what happening in our church, I think we watch the healing every time I have a conversation with another gentleman or another - So you know what, I love what's happening over there. Or I felt this way and like you said, there's going to be problems in relationships. Like the idea that we're going to be able to sit at this table...

Oh, please. 

 ...and never have a disagreement? I think again, that's that's the problem people think is going to be Kum Bah Yah all the time. And that's not realistic.

Steve Alessi  18:06  
It happened in the Garden of Eden. There were issues relationally when Eve took a bite of that forbidden fruit...

Allen Paul  18:18  
Right.

Steve Alessi  18:19  
 The first thing Adam did was point the finger at her. Right away there was a divide 

Allen Paul  18:24  
there's a whole nother thing.  Marriage -  every... every single place where there's a divide or or division, you can always go back to that root. 

Steve Alessi  18:31  
Yeah. 

Allen Paul  18:31  
That root of I think ....I know.... I know better. Let me, let me take matters into my own hands. Let me not... let me not go to my God given husband Adam and say, Hey, what do you think about this? Let me just take matters in my own hands. And then I'll go talk to him. 

Steve Alessi  18:47  
And listening to that voice that is trying to get us to buy into that forbidden fruit. This is such a stronghold in people's life because of the hurts of yesterday. 

Allen Paul  18:59  
Yeah. 

Steve Alessi  19:00  
That the enemy wants to get us to go back to that. And the stronghold is like a cobweb that is up in the corner of our homes, that -  between the wall and the ceiling we don't even see it. It's so far up there, but it's there. 

Allen Paul  19:13  
Yeah.

Steve Alessi  19:14  
And it picks up stuff. That's what a stronghold is to the believers. And sometimes we don't even know it. And that could happen because of past abuses, because of history that we read. We go back and we look at it...doesn't always have to happen to us, but it happens to people that we loved,  or that we've picked up their offense. 

Allen Paul  19:32  
Yeah. 

Steve Alessi  19:33  
And then we're struggling with it and becomes a stronghold. Well, what I think we're able to see with our kids, is that somehow or other Allen Paul, Allen and Steve, not the pastor, but just the men, we have been able to help our kids navigate through this racial discourse or discord that some in the past would want us to grab hold of, because our kids work together today. 

Allen Paul  20:02  
Yeah. 

Steve Alessi  20:03  
And they have a good time working together today. Now, you mentioned the church. We know the church is not a perfect place. But let's, let's define for a minute what the church is. The church is the people that's in the church.

Allen Paul  20:14  
Right. 

Steve Alessi  20:15  
Those that are on the platform, but also those that are in the pews, as they say, you can't get people on the platform and in the pews that are perfect. So there will be issues that spill over into the church from the real world. And I'm thankful for that. 

Allen Paul  20:30  
Yeah. 

Steve Alessi  20:31  
I'm thankful that the church is not like a freezer box, where there's only certain things that could survive, and every one of those things are dead. 

Allen Paul  20:39  
Wow. Yeah. 

Steve Alessi  20:41  
No, we're the refrigerator.

Allen Paul  20:42  
 Yeah. 

Steve Alessi  20:42  
We're cultivating life, extending life, we're down there where it's chilled, it's cool. We're having a good old time, okay. And that means you're going to have to deal with things that spoil from time to time. And we're gonna have to address issues. 

Allen Paul  21:01  
Yeah. 

Steve Alessi  21:01  
Because it was not by just sheer coincidence, that our kids could come together, work with each other every day. Your son is in the finance office - Marcus, and you hear him talk a mile away, he's so deep with his voice.

Allen Paul  21:23  
He didn't get it from me...must be a generation back. Am I really loud? I don't know. 

Steve Alessi  21:29  
No, you're not loud at all. Except when you're on your head - headset, you're bobbing and telling everybody, we can hear you during worship. But then my son is over there in his office right next to Marcus. And then my girls are across the hall, they all share an office together. And the interaction is just beautiful. It's just normal. It's what life should be. They, they have not bought into the...the unrest that's been out there. And, and they they've talked themselves through some things because hearing or seeing on social media, what different ones are saying, could put a seed in them. 

Allen Paul  22:11  
Yes. 

Steve Alessi  22:12  
But they don't let it go. They don't let it go deep. They don't buy into it. They, they don't let it become the root of an issue, a root of bitterness between the two of them, they refuse to do it. And AP, that's where I find it so interesting that if we can help others do this same thing....

Allen Paul  22:31  
 Yeah

Steve Alessi  22:32  
.... as men take the lead in our family, we just don't let the thought of another man that's of a different race than our family is.... We don't let that cause division in our home or in any environment that they share that kind of relationship with people. We take the lead on that.

Allen Paul  22:50  
Yeah. And you modeled it. And I wrote this down because I was  - I was taking some notes right before and I was thinking about it. And just how again, how did this happen? How did we raise now young adults, you know, all of our kids over 18, all of them adults now just amazing. Again, thinking back to when we first arrived. And again, you starting the church with  think Chris was already here. Stephanie was just getting here and then yeah, and then -  and Gabby and Lolo. And I wrote this down, and I want to see if you this echoes... because I said this. I think we raised our children with similar values, not realizing, of course, I just raised my kids, you know, like 11 - 2 or whatever. But I wrote this down, and maybe this makes sense. I raised my children to think for themselves, but I gave them the truth, based on God's word, and let them see it in action through the Godly people around them. That's why I think they are able to withstand all the noise because they are - they're free thinkers. They're free thinkers. They are strong personalities. Our kids are strong personalities. From the get go. Naomi, Marcus, they know how they think,  they have their ways, they - they're like "Yes Mom, No Mom", but then they go do whatever they think they're supposed to do, because that we gave them that independence and that confidence to move. But then we always said, "You know what, number one, here's what God says about this. Here's what we believe." 

Steve Alessi  24:13  
Yeah. 

Allen Paul  24:13  
We gave them the values and then number two, we put them around people that modeled that same behavior, that same mentality Whether it was from the very get-go back way back from Pensacola, my mom's church, all the way up to now, we've been blessed with people around them and that's why - Parents, oh my gosh, every parent that's  listening to me, please stop just letting your children choose their own friends and not getting in environments like a youth service,  like a Metro Youth.

Steve Alessi  24:41  
 Yeah. 

Allen Paul  24:41  
Because that is so huge. Marcus I know would not be who he is now if he had not been in that first iteration of Infuz, back with Pastor Armando and Pastor Chris back when he was doing youth. 

Steve Alessi  24:54  
Yep. 

Allen Paul  24:54  
That's what did it. That's where he found his ability to say "Who am I?" Because you can't be around other kids trying to figure out who you are. We have to help them see who they are. And then they can withstand... again when someone says "No you shouldn't like this guy, shouldn't like this guy, this person says you should be more more woke This person says you should be more, you know, this, more that." Their identity is based on the people  - the five, right? The five people around them the most? 

Steve Alessi  24:55  
That's true. 

Allen Paul  25:01  
And pastor, that wasn't like rocket science. No, it was just, I don't know all the answers as a dad, I need to get them around other people who do know the answers. And you and Pastor Mary, and the youth and the people in this church, the parents and the families of this church, is why our kids now are not so -  I mean, do they have opinions? Yes... I'm so glad my daughter and my son don't always agree with me. That's okay. Right? Because again, they're free thinkers, but they know where to go back to, to the foundation. And so that, to me, is why I think we have the relationship in our kids that they have, because they were around the right people, they had the values, and then we let God do the hard work of just working on their hearts. And now, they're okay, they're okay.

Steve Alessi  26:04  
And I'm glad you say God, because it's got to be more God than it is the culture. 

Allen Paul  26:09  
Absolutely.

Steve Alessi  26:10  
 Too many voices out in the culture are not on the same page with God, not even close to it. And they're bought into some other kind of philosophy that doesn't move us closer to each other. It really does pull us away from each other. 

Yeah. 

One thing you're going to hear us say many times in the family business podcast is pulling our kids or getting our kids through the wormhole. A lot of people think, Allen, that if my kids' 21, now I just let them make decisions on their own, and they really pull back. It maybe at 18. Some of them let their kids make decisions about colleges on their own, about spouses on their own, because they think they're old enough to now do that. Mary and I have a totally different philosophy - that our kids, for ones, especially young men, their brains not even formed together until they hit in their mid 20s. We're helping them. We're allowing kids to make decisions with half their brains. If we go with this philosophy, of let them do all the thinking, let them do all their decisions on their own. We're putting them out there. And we're not - we're not coming alongside of them. Like the Proverbs tells us. Which says wisdom to a young man is listening to the words of their father. 

Allen Paul  27:40  
Yeah. 

Steve Alessi  27:41  
Too many fathers or mothers aren't giving their kids the words by which to navigate their life. And Mary and I sit back and say, all right, we got our kids this far into their life, and up alongside of us in the ministry, and our business, per se.

Allen Paul  27:59  
Yeah. 

Steve Alessi  27:59  
But we're not taking our hands off yet. Because we got to get them through this difficult season, where they're still trying to make sense of everything that's going on in the real world, with half the mindset that's needed. And they don't have wisdom, they may have knowledge. Bible talks about wisdom and knowledge. They may have knowledge, because they read a lot, their brains quick right now. It's like consuming everything that's on social media. They're listening to it all. They're getting knowledge, but what they lack is wisdom. And unless the head of the family who runs the family business in the home or in the ministry, on the job...unless they come along the head and says wait a minute, that thinking doesn't work for us. That's how it used to be when I was growing up. My parents said, Why are you doing this? Well, because David's parents let him do it. No, no, no, that's David's parents, but in my home, this is what you do. We got to make sure we set the stage as parents to navigate our kid. And we're the bumpers at the bowling alley. 

Allen Paul  29:06  
Yep. 

Steve Alessi  29:06  
That's helping them keep the ball in play, and not strikeout.

Allen Paul  29:10  
I love that Pastor, and what immediately popped up is that -  I think there probably some parents listening right now that might think, Oh, well, it's too late. I can't start speaking into my child's life because I didn't - that I didn't have my church at 15, 14 13, 12 like we had ours. We didn't...we didn't...I didn't guide them to the teenage years and I wasn't there perfectly. I wasn't a perfect dad, am still not a perfect dad, we'll never be a your perfect dad, whether 1516 to 25 there are so many mistakes I've made along the way. But that doesn't excuse me from that, that principle and that proverb that you just stated Yeah, that as a father, my job is to guide my son in the way that he should go and when he is old, he will not depart from it. 

There you go. That never goes away. So just because things didn't go perfectly for the first half of my life. Absolutely not. I did not intend for any of this to happen. God's grace may Be the parent I am. How, however, that gives me even more reason. Now, like you said that he's in the season of his life 2425 Naomi, 22 my oldest, you know, I mean, these are all seasons where I've had to become more. I love the fact that you talked about it a lot like a coach, you step in like a coach. Will the player go out there and mess up? 

Yep

Does he have to run the play by himself? Absolutely, I can't run the ball for my son anymore. I can't, I can't tell him what to do. Can't - I mean I can tell him what to do. I can't assume he's going to do what I say to do. And that's life. That's growing up as a young man or young woman. But I can set the parameters -  Here's the play you should run. Here's how you can avoid getting tackled, here's how you can avoid the issues that tripped me up here. And where I lost the game.  

Steve Alessi  30:48  
So good.

Allen Paul  30:49  
 And if you do these things, son, you're going to have a much better time and I love again, our church been walking through Proverbs as we're recording. 

Steve Alessi  30:56  
Yes. 

Allen Paul  30:56  
And that's all they keep saying.  It's just -  I think of it as reps just son just do. Do the, the reps, do it over and over again. Just keep listening, keep following through. And so any parent that's listening "Oh, I can't start now." Yes, you can and you better. Because otherwise, like you said, someone else is speaking into them. And that's it's  - just the time, it's time to stop making that excuse and just go ahead, because you can see the results.  The results is what you're seeing with Chris and Stephanie and Lauren and Gabrielle is just, and my and ....my children.... it's a blessing that you can't describe. Seeing you at that wedding - you know, just quickly to mention it. I want that one day. I'm not gonna be a maybe I won't be the one marrying them all. I want to be... I want to be standing there, seeing that legacy take place because you did the things you just talked about.

Steve Alessi  31:44  
Okay, family business podcast today was really good. You heard from two coaches... you heard from a quiet, soft instructional coach, and you heard from a loud, screaming crazy out of his mind coach and hope you were helped today. Thanks for joining us.

Chris Alessi  32:00  
Thanks for listening to the family business podcast with the Alessis. We appreciate you listening and learning with us as we just shared more about the family business. You know, I bet there's someone you know who can use this kind of advice and encouragement. So make sure to share this episode with them and their family. Because let's face it, family is everyone's business. If you want to be a part of our family, subscribe to the show right now on your favorite app and make sure to download the episodes so you can hear them at any time. Oh, and one more thing. One of the best ways to help us spread the word about the family business with the Alessis is by reviewing the show on Apple podcasts or your favorite app. So help us out. write a review and join us next time at the Family Business podcast with the Alessis.