The Struggle to Leave and Cleave: Responding to Your Questions on Marriage and In-Laws | S7 E27

Steve Alessi:
Cleave to your spouse. Right. Get healthy, get strong,

Mary Alessi:
get get become one. Get unified. Get unified. Become one. And then and when you're one, you're stronger to be able to then as the parents get older, take care of them along the way. Does that make sense?

Mary Alessi:
That's a drop the mic moment right there.

Mary Alessi:
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Family Business with the Alessis. I am Steve Alessi here with Mary Alessi on the set in the podcast booth. Yes. Talking to a podience because family is everybody's business. Guess what, Mary? We're going to talk family today.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah, we are.

Mary Alessi:
We're actually going to be going back to an episode that's gotten close to 10,000 downloads, because it just got people very, open.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. About some of the challenges that

Mary Alessi:
they have. Here we are in season seven of our podcast, which is pretty cool. We like that.

Mary Alessi:
High five.

Mary Alessi:
This goes Yeah. Bam. From over here. This goes back to season three. That just all of a sudden the episode just gained more traction. Right. And it comes down to this whole deal of leaving and cleaving. Leaving and cleaving.

Mary Alessi:
Meaning that when we get married, we are supposed to leave the environment and influence of our parents and then focus more on cleaving to our spouse, the person that now we are living with and say we love and we're married to. Evidently, that's harder done than said. Yeah. Right? Because it's a biblical principle. You know, Bible tells us you're to leave and then cleave. That's pretty, you know, catchy, isn't it? Clever, leave and cleave.

Mary Alessi:
But, it's hard.

Mary Alessi:
So it's biblical. And if it's biblical, it just tells me there's all hell against it. Right. For sure. So the spiritual opposition is there. But, you know, the podcast is focusing on family. We're we're seeing that more and more people are responding to it Yeah. Because family, as we've said, is everybody's business.

Mary Alessi:
And and you you got a great testimony and story about somebody who in your own family loves the podcast.

Mary Alessi:
Actually, this morning, it happened. Right before we got into the podcast booth, I got a voice memo from my sister who shared and said thank you for the Alessi Family Business Podcast because she was able to go back in our archives and find a podcast that I did with my mom talking about toxic relationships and dealing with daughter in laws and how difficult that can be and sent it to a family member that was really struggling at their wits' end.

Mary Alessi:
Mhmm.

Mary Alessi:
Sent it to her, and she listened to it instantly. I mean, she was able to listen to it in, like, forty five minutes, and it began to change her perspective. And she called my sister back and said, Thank you for that. I can't even tell you how much that's helped me today. And that's the point of it. So it's getting out there, and we wanna encourage our listeners. Yeah. Be familiar with our archive.

Mary Alessi:
Be familiar with our seasons because we talk about just about everything that can happen in a family. We've talked about it, and we're gonna keep talking about it because we want families to be healthy and strong, and we want couples to stay together

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
And live happy lives. There's no reason to be miserable and have factions in the family and it be a hostile environment. Yeah. There is no reason for that. We all know that we're all capable of that, But there isn't a reason. There are options out there and we want to help people.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. You know, I read a statistics as I was talking to a group of guys recently. So eighty five percent of all divorces, are the result of infidelity. Okay?

Mary Alessi:
Eighty five percent

Mary Alessi:
of all divorces are the result of infidelity. Which means, all right, if there's not infidelity in the marriage, you got a good chance of making it happen.

Mary Alessi:
Right?

Mary Alessi:
You know, infidelity is a deal breaker. It just jacks up everything. Trust is lost and so forth. But as it pertains to even the subject matter that we're addressing today, the leaving and cleaving part. Right. That's not a reason in itself, in itself to let the marriage die. Yeah. The marriage is worth fighting for.

Mary Alessi:
It's just how do we balance this thing of leaving the home base and the parents? Really, it's leaving the parents and then cleaving now and and building this relationship with your spouse on your own. And there's a lot of different, issues involved in it. You know, guilt may be an issue. Manipulation. Negative side may be an issue. Control. Maybe location of the whereabouts of a family, maybe, the loss of a loved one, the father, the mother, and therefore, the son or the daughter feels responsible to take care of the parent and keep them in the home. The Latin culture down here in South Florida is huge about the Taking

Mary Alessi:
care of family.

Mary Alessi:
Parents being in the home, even with the kids, the in law quarters, the outlaw quarters, whatever you want to call them. There's there's a lot that goes into it. And and the good news is we can discuss it. And it's great to be able to have a conversation with the partner that's going through this kind of deal, because that means the marriage is solvable. You can work this out. So we actually had some people send us in some questions and some comments. And they want us to give highlights, our response to it. And listen, we're not licensed therapists or counselors.

Mary Alessi:
We're pastors. We deal with a lot of people issues, and challenges. So we're we have to put that disclaimer out there. This is not the whole truth, nothing but the truth. So help us, Scott. This is the Alessi's opinion.

Mary Alessi:
And our formula.

Mary Alessi:
And now we're sitting on our porch, and we're having a conversation about this subject matter. And let's hear from you. Now these were

Mary Alessi:
in response to the Leaving Cleave, right? They sent in because they listened to the podcast. Yep. Okay. Good to know. So you want me to read the first one?

Mary Alessi:
Read the first one. And by the way, this they all come from women. Well,

Mary Alessi:
it's women that want answers, I guess.

Mary Alessi:
Oh, boy.

Mary Alessi:
Sorry. Let's go for Okay. Here we go. My fiance's mom can't afford a place on her own. She wants an annex on our house, which I mean is an apartment Yes.

Mary Alessi:
Or a

Mary Alessi:
side room. And his dad wants to live a few doors up. I'm assuming maybe the mom and dad don't live together, so they're divorced, but they both wanna live around her fiance, her future husband. So they're not married yet. Let's take all that into account. Okay. It does feel suffocating and like we can't just be us. So is that not leaving and cleaving? As there aren't many options for them, I guess his mom and dad don't know what to do, but I want it to be what God says is supposed to happen.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. Alright. So first and foremost, thanks for sending that question. Yes. I think it's a great question.

Mary Alessi:
Very honest.

Mary Alessi:
That's it's something that, is going to help a bunch of people. Yes. This is a normal scenario that will happen. Right. So I would first say off the bat, don't judge everything right now. Right. On it. Now this is your fiance, you're evidently not married.

Mary Alessi:
So you're thinking of getting married. Should this weigh in the decision making process process? I'm not sure. I think it could help in the positive. I don't look at this from a negative. And the reason I say that is if the man's willing to take care of his mom and his dad, he's probably going to be willing to take pretty good care of you. Right. So that's a good thing. All right.

Mary Alessi:
Now the, negative side of it, I think, is that the confusion for him, he's gonna just talking from a man's perspective. Okay, the dad may not be taking care of the mom.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Mary Alessi:
If he doesn't live with the mom, right, and he wants to live nearby. He's evidently not taking care of the mom. So now the son feels obligated Right. To take care of his mom. Could be. And here's what we know. Even at the season of our lives where we take care of our moms. Yes.

Mary Alessi:
Our dads are gone. So it's our responsibility to take care of our moms. We feel it's a privilege to do so. Right. And yes, it could be suffocating.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah, it can be.

Mary Alessi:
When they're in the home. It can be overwhelming. You can't, you can't you can't vacate that that that place because we're sharing the space together. And so it could be suffocating. And, that then just means you've got to be able to help your fiance, help your husband deal with the guilt that he could be feeling because he's got

Mary Alessi:
to now take care of his mom. Right. And when money's an object, it's an issue. And I would say maybe he's moving out to marry this young lady that wrote in. And with him moving out, he's probably helped support his mom stay in the home she's in. So now they're getting married, so the mom can't afford to stay in the house. There's all

Mary Alessi:
those idea what that what do you mean? That's a little confusing to me.

Mary Alessi:
Well, no. It's they're not married yet Right. And the mom can't afford a place on her own.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Mary Alessi:
So that probably means that when once they get married and the son moves out, that's why the mom can't afford the place on her own. So it's the marriage that's making that happen.

Mary Alessi:
Okay.

Mary Alessi:
You see what I'm saying?

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
Right. Because they're not married yet.

Mary Alessi:
Got it.

Mary Alessi:
So if that's the case, then if that's the scenario, there's a lot of decisions to make, and that does put a lot of pressure on the her future husband

Mary Alessi:
Mhmm.

Mary Alessi:
Because he's gotta help make decisions for his mom who he's probably helped support in her home. What do you think?

Mary Alessi:
Okay.

Mary Alessi:
I mean, that's what I think.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
So now the dad wants to live close too. So the here's the question. Do you want that to work? If you want that to work, you can work it. If everybody's agreeable and there's boundaries and there's rules in place and there's a calendar and there's a policy, we don't just walk in each other's homes. We don't it's not a free for all because he's still your son. Yes. It's because you can't afford it, and maybe the place they're moving into is inexpensive, and so that's something that they're throwing around as an option. Awesome.

Mary Alessi:
But I think the big question is, if you want it to work, God always wants unity because she asked the question, I wanna do what God wants to have happen. She wants to honor God. Mhmm. Well, God wants us to be in unity. Yeah. But he doesn't necessarily mean we have we have to all live in the same building.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
But that can be a benefit.

Mary Alessi:
Mhmm.

Mary Alessi:
It can actually be a blessing Yeah. If you want it to work relationally without conflict. So it starts there. If you want it to work, then you you implement boundaries, you implement rules, everybody respects one another. And before anybody moves or before anybody gets married, it's good to have these conversations. And that's why I'm I this caller and, or writer in her or podcast listener is smart to do this before they get married.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. Because she's picking up on on the disconnect somewhere. Yeah. And, as as we were Well, the pressure too. Yeah. Yeah. But you sense it when my mom comes to town. I sense it when your mom comes to town.

Mary Alessi:
There's a little disconnect between us.

Mary Alessi:
Well, I'll tell you what

Mary Alessi:
Because we have to focus so much on them.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. And but I will tell you what I do observe. Oh, boy. Okay? Yep. Now this is just the just my observation. So Mothers and sons have a very different dynamic than mothers and daughters. Mhmm. And there is a forced obligation that you naturally feel.

Mary Alessi:
You feel this weight of expectation Totally. That might not be there. And I'm watching it for even my future relationship with my one and only son, Christopher. Right? Whereas the daughters, I don't have any of that with my mother. I can laugh at my mom and go go to your room and tease her, or I can be very straightforward and it does not hurt hurt her feelings. But there's a boundary line there where a son feels like he's gonna hurt his mother. And when your dad passed, correct me if I'm wrong, but it does feel like that male presence in her life, that all that burden shifted onto you.

Mary Alessi:
Oh, totally.

Mary Alessi:
Okay. Whether she's doing that or not. Right. Because I don't think that's her intention. It doesn't matter. It's what you feel.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Mary Alessi:
So it's it's harder on you. It's harder on the sun.

Mary Alessi:
Well, I can tell you what's interesting is my mom will come around and she'll make a generalized statement about me like she knows me. But she's referring to the me that I was when I was a kid in her home.

Mary Alessi:
I know. Right? Yeah. I know that's gonna make

Mary Alessi:
me cry. She's she's referring to that. And sometimes the sixty year old guy and the 64 year old guy wants to come back

Mary Alessi:
and say, you

Mary Alessi:
don't even know who the heck I am. Why? I know. But you can't. No. But that happens. It's because the mom so you're saying the mom you don't have to cry.

Mary Alessi:
No, because I'm thinking like a mom.

Mary Alessi:
The mom doesn't mean to put that pressure on the son, but she does. So when you say the son feels pressure, I feel pressure the moment I'm driving to go pick up my mom. I want everything to be it's a it's not a bad pressure. It's it's the obligate obligation. It's the son feeling the weight of saying I've got to provide

Mary Alessi:
It's the perception.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. So so the point of leaving and cleaving as as it pertains to that right there, he will always leave. That could be quick. The cleaving part, having to de cleave to then cleave Right.

Mary Alessi:
To your Oh, no. No.

Mary Alessi:
That's gonna take a while. Yeah. And, grace is needed. Now the the the thing that we're picking up if we read between the lines is somebody's concerned about manipulation here on the part of the mother. Yeah. The mother-in-law. So that's where you've got to be so careful. Is is there manipulation?

Mary Alessi:
Well, that's the thing.

Mary Alessi:
And here's the answer to is there manipulation between a mother and her son? Si. Si, senorita. Oh, boy. Yes, they can't help you.

Mary Alessi:
I don't know what that is.

Mary Alessi:
First ownership. It's the the the owner I owned you first. I made you. So therefore, I could tell you what to do even without telling you what to do.

Mary Alessi:
This might sound dark and diabolical, but I'm gonna say it.

Mary Alessi:
Oh, boy.

Mary Alessi:
I think every single mom is in our DNA to think when we're when we know we're having a son and it just happens, there's not one thing we can do about it. Don't feel guilty, Mary. Don't feel guilty. It is what it is. But I think we have this innate thought that might be in our subconscious that we are giving birth to the perfect specimen of a man. Mhmm. The kindest, most generous, sweetest, considerate, look at him, look at you know, I it is so sweet to me when I see your mom rub your hand

Mary Alessi:
I know.

Mary Alessi:
Or reach over and rub your hair.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Mary Alessi:
And I know you're like, I'm not a child. As a mom, like, right now, I do not wanna do that to my son

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
Because I want him to be a man. But I can see in my future just looking at my son with, look what I did, look what I made. And I that's not it sounds so twisted and weird, but there's just in us

Mary Alessi:
It is.

Mary Alessi:
Mothers of sons. I think too when you you just have one.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
I think when you just have that one son, you want him to be perfect. Yeah. And you really have to get that out of your brain because that could be twisted.

Mary Alessi:
Okay. So we're going a different direction. Okay. I think it might

Mary Alessi:
be helping some people.

Mary Alessi:
I don't know. It's helping me. Maybe you better understand the man. And the Well, that's that's that's the point of the deal. Writing in today, women are writing in, that it is about the man not doing his part.

Mary Alessi:
But understanding why Yeah. Has freed me over the years.

Mary Alessi:
Because it gives you a lot of grace for the situation. Yes. And and I, you know, I bring these observations up about my mom in my interaction with her and her Right. Reaction to me. And it does because I can I'm aware of it. It does give me a little bit more grace. So I don't say, mom, stop treating me like a child. I'm seeing it for you.

Mary Alessi:
Yourself in her. You saw yourself in your dad. See, I see myself in my mom, so I have a lot more grace for her.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. Yeah. You know

Mary Alessi:
what I'm saying?

Mary Alessi:
I do. I do. Alright. So Let's

Mary Alessi:
get to the next one. Anyway, we're we're helping each other. We're not even talking about okay. Second, my husband and I are currently not speaking to each other. His mother, too much involved in his life. My husband is 48 years old and he is a mama's boy. I'm sorry. They both call each other on the phone every day, three to four times a day on the phone and talk

Mary Alessi:
for hours. There there it is Right away.

Mary Alessi:
What is what?

Mary Alessi:
He's talked out. He's he's exceeded his talking quotient.

Mary Alessi:
Well, she said it drives me crazy.

Mary Alessi:
Yes, it would.

Mary Alessi:
Then she said he tells her everything even when we have an argument.

Mary Alessi:
Because he's got nothing to talk about. No. That's bad.

Mary Alessi:
He can't do that.

Mary Alessi:
He's not gonna tell her about his work. He's gotta talk about something mom's interested in.

Mary Alessi:
Well, he'll regret that. He'll regret that. He recently told me that his mom was his obligation because she gave him life. Mhmm. He gave his mother and his grandmother money behind my back. Did not even talk to me about it. My husband said he didn't have to tell me that he gave them money. But our money goes into the same account.

Mary Alessi:
His mother always takes his side and she gossips about their whole family instead of keeping the peace. Due to her gossiping, my husband almost was arrested.

Mary Alessi:
Oof.

Mary Alessi:
I am fed up and I can't take it anymore. I told him that he needs to divorce me and marry his mother.

Mary Alessi:
Oh, lord.

Mary Alessi:
His mother told me to stop controlling her son, and what she does with her son is their business, and it doesn't involve me.

Mary Alessi:
Well, in this day, you know, the mom's evidently identifying herself as his wife. Well Yeah. That's when

Mary Alessi:
it goes too far.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. You know, we joked on the front end. Forgive me if that was, disrespectful.

Mary Alessi:
No. Intended about this.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. That that's gonna be a problem. I have a problem with the the money thing Because, it's not when you and I got married, I realized it's not my money. It's not your money. It's our money. Right. And the way we spend our money, both of us should be aware of it. Right.

Mary Alessi:
Right. So that that's an issue. Why wouldn't he wanna share with his wife that, he's spending their money to help the mother? So that should just come out and be on the table, that I want to help my mom. I want to do these kind of things for her. If if if he was to tell you that, my question would be, would that matter to you? Would you stop him from doing it? Right. And if you would stop him from doing it, why? Right. What's what's there relationally or not there relationally between you as his wife and her as his mom?

Mary Alessi:
That's good.

Mary Alessi:
They, they, that needs to be bridged right right there because Yeah. I don't think it's healthy for a man to feel like he's gotta choose between one or the other.

Mary Alessi:
No. No. It's terrible. Yeah. You know, Steve, you said it earlier. There's some guilt there with some with some young men, especially with the world of divorce. And when a dad leaves, his mother and a son has to deal with the rejection. Maybe he was I don't know this scenario, but we know that that is a very high statistic, so it's more probable, in this story.

Mary Alessi:
And there's a a sense of of, burden and obligation that the son naturally takes to care for his mother because he is the man in her life, and he has to learn how to leave and cleave

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
To his wife. And when he can't do it, it's not because he hates his wife, it's because he loves his mother. Mhmm. And he doesn't know how. And now he's got two women in his life, and he has no clue how to please both of them or either one of them generally. His mom he's more familiar with

Mary Alessi:
because

Mary Alessi:
he's been with her his whole life. So guilt can cause us to do a lot of things and act out and then just expect the wife to get in line, figure it out. You should be more, compliant. You should be more merciful. It's it's my mom. It's my grandmother. You know, all those things. But I do go back to that question, do you want peace? Do you want to stay married? Because if you don't, this person is headed for divorce court

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
Because this won't work.

Mary Alessi:
Right. No. There there needs to be more transparency, more more honesty. A lot of this would just behind the back kind of thing going on. That that just creates this lack of trust. And the money is not the problem Right. That I see here. The moms doesn't seem to be the problem right here.

Mary Alessi:
I just see there seems to be the problem to me is a lack of trust between the husband and the wife. And I would ask why? What's happening? Why why can't there just be this transparency and vulnerability between the husband and the wife? Why can't there be this understanding that I want to do this for my mom? I want to be there for her. I want to take care of her. Why can't there be that? And then an understanding on the other side that is is is he not supporting what the wife's doing? Right. And by him not supporting what she's doing, is she angry at him because of what he's doing to Right. For his mom? Is it a tit for tat situation?

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
Is there some unresolved, hidden, swept under the carpet issues going on that then is manifesting itself in the whole, this tension between the in law here?

Mary Alessi:
Right. This is definitely one that counseling we would highly encourage counseling. You've got to get some professional help here because it's either just somebody's being petty and selfish or there's some deep, deep issues that a counselor needs to help the whole family work out so they can stay together.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. Because I think it's a win win scenario on this position situation. I think there's something that with a little bit more understanding, they can come to an agreement on so that the husband's not feeling like he can't take care of his mom.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Mary Alessi:
But the wife can't feel like he's choosing the mother over her.

Mary Alessi:
Well, that's the language that a lot of wives use because it's all it's the only language they know to use. Do you love her more than me? Well, that's we're 12 at this point when we say those things. Really, it should be that we equip ourselves with the right questions. Are do you feel guilty that you can't take better care of your mom? Is this guilt?

Mary Alessi:
Mhmm.

Mary Alessi:
And if you can unlock your husband's heart to open up by rather than just accusing him, and we don't know the scenario. We don't know.

Mary Alessi:
Mhmm.

Mary Alessi:
But this is just one, angle to come at this.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
That it's possible that the wife could say to the husband, if you're feeling guilty, let's talk about it. Yeah. And how can I help?

Mary Alessi:
Yeah, because her her feelings are real. The way she's sensing, he's spending money behind his back her back.

Mary Alessi:
Picked his mom over her.

Mary Alessi:
No, no. So she she has a right to feel That's right. This particular way. But what can they do then to come to the middle ground, which is we're going to always come back to this. All right. And this is why our tagline is, you know, family is everybody's business. Because if it's if you don't take care of your business, it's going to become somebody else's business that they're going to talk about.

Mary Alessi:
The divorce

Mary Alessi:
is business. Somebody's going to be talking about your business. You might as may as well talk about your business to your spouse. Right. So let's resolve it by having some communication here. And it's not just a slammed shut door in my face when I want to address this. No, this, this is either, you know, feeding the relationship and the relationship is healthy, or you're starving the relationship because nobody wants to talk about this. And if you starve something, it's gonna die.

Mary Alessi:
It's gonna die.

Mary Alessi:
And you don't want that to be the case. It's not infidelity.

Mary Alessi:
No, exactly.

Mary Alessi:
It's just Parental. It's a real challenge.

Mary Alessi:
That's right.

Mary Alessi:
And you're not the only one facing it. That's why we've got got all these people that have listened to this podcast Yeah. On leaving and cleaning. Because it's hard. Because it's hard.

Mary Alessi:
Because it's hard. It's hard to do. And and this generation needs to learn how to do hard things.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
This is hard.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
But it can be done. And here's the thing, when you do it, the entire dynamic gets healthy.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. Read the third one.

Mary Alessi:
Okay. Third one. What if you had a situation where now I don't understand this one. This one's a little bit hard to understand. But anyway, what if you had a situation where you guys, as the first parents, didn't want to let your child leave and cleave? Okay? And then years of friction have built up due to the parents not letting go and lots of family drama. So that is that like grandparents?

Mary Alessi:
Mhmm.

Mary Alessi:
Okay. The wife now wants these parents out of their lives so they can build their own life as the husband and wife and a child is coming soon. Mhmm. However, the child with these parents wants to keep the parents present in their lives due to the fact that they have always pictured them being in their lives.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. Alright.

Mary Alessi:
Comprenge? A little bit.

Mary Alessi:
I I think I wish our producer would have, edited that question a little better. I don't think he understood.

Mary Alessi:
Details instead

Mary Alessi:
of throwing it at us.

Mary Alessi:
One in laws versus another in law?

Mary Alessi:
I think there's, I think it comes down to one of the the kids that are adults now, you know, again, saying these parents of my spouse, my partner are too much in our lives.

Mary Alessi:
And they've created friction and drama.

Mary Alessi:
Created friction meanwhile, my my spouse wants them in the life because to him the dream that he saw was the whole family being together, parents.

Mary Alessi:
The wife wants the parents out of the lives, but Right. The her husband wants the parents gone. Mhmm.

Mary Alessi:
Or

Mary Alessi:
no. She wants them out. They want he wants them in.

Mary Alessi:
He wants them in. Same same issue. I okay. And I'll I'll tell you. As a man sitting in the chair, I love the fact that legacy. Yeah. Is, it's just something that I love to see played out before me. So having my mom around right now.

Mary Alessi:
Right. Right? Have her come to church, have her stand up. When your mom comes to town, we have her stand up. Everybody loves on them. That brings you and I tremendous joy. Right. That our people are loving them. That makes us feel good knowing that we have honoring taken place in our very presence.

Mary Alessi:
Right. Because we know one day our kids are going to honor us if we honor our parents. Right? So there's something about legacy in people. I think the scripture even talks about that, that eternity has actually been put in the heart of man. There's something about being able to see one generation and then the next generation coming. And as you get older and you're higher up, you see a third generation coming. There's something within us that is being built. So for a man, one of the reasons this is going to cause some problems is because he wants to be able to embrace where he's coming from and the people that brought him here.

Mary Alessi:
It's part of legacy. It's part of what God put in in the DNA of people. They just don't know how to always articulate it. Right. Then to be able to see children come, it gave me some of the greatest joy when my kids would run into the arms of my father. Absolutely. And my mother. And, it gives us joy.

Mary Alessi:
We see it today, how our kids light up when we walk in a room and one of their children, our grandchildren come running across the room to hug Mia and kiss Papa.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. Right? Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
There's just something that's normal, that should be embraced. Now let's go back to see why that creates friction.

Mary Alessi:
Right. Well, or do the people do those parents cause friction for the daughter-in-law?

Mary Alessi:
Mhmm.

Mary Alessi:
And if the daughter-in-law just wants them out of her life, here's the truth. That's not gonna be easy to do. You can't just want them out of your life and they go away. And you can't want your husband to say get rid of them and they go away. They won't. They're parents.

Mary Alessi:
They're parents.

Mary Alessi:
That's DNA. That's blood. And you have to find different ways to manage those relationships. Mhmm. And first of all, you have to accept that we do we are mandated by God to honor our mothers and fathers. It doesn't say as long as they're good people and they're not toxic. It just says to honor them. Now what that means is you don't have a free for all in your home.

Mary Alessi:
There are those boundaries, and we go back, and we've done podcast on that. We encourage listeners to go back and listen to all of the podcasts we've done because we get into the nitty gritty of some of this. But it it is something that I think daughters have to understand with sons and vice versa. We all want our parents around.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
It's a part of who we are. It's the people we come from.

Mary Alessi:
You know, babe, let me just interject on that. Sometimes a guy when he's younger, he doesn't. Right. And that's normal. He's going through that season where he's trying to find his stability, his balance. And that usually happens when he's younger. He's he's needs to be, unless he's been overly mothered now. Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
Okay. Because that could be an issue.

Mary Alessi:
It's true.

Mary Alessi:
And overly controlled by a father. Most of the time, what he's gonna want to do is be able to disconnect a little. He wants some distance to show that he's a man and establish his home. That was very important. So he doesn't always want him there. But as he starts to get older, kids come on the scene, he does want to be able to show his parents that he's doing a good job because he wants them to be proud of him.

Mary Alessi:
And I would ask you this question. Yeah. Do you think that young men these days who are products of divorce and did not know their father in their home and haven't had a father role even really know how to deal as a man? Like, they do they instinctively know how to do husbandly things emotionally? No. So if a wife is married to somebody whose father was dysfunctional or not in his life, she's already dealing kind of with an emotionally, unresourced person.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. Maybe not emotionally unresourced, but just skill wise. Right.

Mary Alessi:
You know, in that area,

Mary Alessi:
in that area. He's just he he needs No, but he sure needs a mentor. He sure needs that father. And the older I get, and I know, even as Alan sits in this room as our producer here, and the men that I deal with on staff, the older we get, the more we wanted Yes. The attention and of the father. We needed him. Absolutely. When my dad passed away, it was like shucks.

Mary Alessi:
You know, a lot was lost. I I no longer have the conversation, so I got a pain in my shoulder. Right? And I'm like, oh my gosh, my shoulder's killing me. And in the past, I'd say, hey, dad, did you ever have shoulder problems? Yeah. You know? Yes. I've had migraines. I've got have you ever had migraines? It's part of your history is lost when the person that birthed you

Mary Alessi:
is no longer there. It's because it's the same in the reverse.

Mary Alessi:
So imagine never having that growing up.

Mary Alessi:
Never having a father.

Mary Alessi:
What are you what have you lost? What did you not realize?

Mary Alessi:
What's unformed in you?

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. That's that's a big deal.

Mary Alessi:
It is. And I think it's good for women to know that marry young men who were fatherless, that they've got to back up a little and have more grace and understanding.

Mary Alessi:
Because something's gonna come up Absolutely. As a result of that.

Mary Alessi:
Absolutely. They don't have a roadmap.

Mary Alessi:
No. No. Here here's what I would love to be able to say to those that are challenged with the leave and leave. As the parent who wants their kids to be so close to them, you gotta lighten up. Yeah. You you cannot use guilt and manipulation.

Mary Alessi:
That's it.

Mary Alessi:
Daddy. Yep. Control. You you can't do that. That's right. And we babe, we can do it. Oh, easily. And we got our kids working for us.

Mary Alessi:
Oh, easily. We can pull the whole paycheck. I'm the boss. You better listen to me card and and, you know, but I know that first, first with my kids Yeah. I'm gonna be a dad before I'm gonna put the hat on as the boss. Yeah. Right? So I'm gonna be a dad first, which means I'm not gonna try to control. We can do it.

Mary Alessi:
Right. You can do it. You can throw guilt in there. And you're not even an Italian, but but you know I've learned. You've learned. You can go ahead and put it in there. Oh, it's instinctive. So as parents, it's on us to lead the way here.

Mary Alessi:
Yes. And Help them lead the way.

Mary Alessi:
Come on. It's true. Let go of your sons.

Mary Alessi:
You've got to let go of your sons.

Mary Alessi:
Me and Chris do a whole podcast on that. Yep. It's it's in the it's in the library. Part two. We might have to do a part two.

Mary Alessi:
Bringing your son-in-law.

Mary Alessi:
Because we're seeing it in marriages. When you don't stop, it's going to affect your son's life. Yeah. It's going to affect his wife. It's gonna affect your grandchildren. And it might put him in a position to have to choose between you as his mother and his wife. And if he he's got to choose her

Mary Alessi:
Yep.

Mary Alessi:
Then you're out and you don't get to see your grandkids.

Mary Alessi:
So that's from the parents. Now from the son's perspective I love this. From the son's perspective, your first priority the moment you get married is your wife. You you have to look towards her, to her, and to take care of the needs there first. Now, if your parent is there that still needs your coverage and still needs your care, you have to now communicate that to your wife. How can we do this? Because it may end up being as time goes on, you need to do it for her parents too.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Mary Alessi:
And so as a son, you need to communicate with your wife first. She becomes number one. Mom becomes number two. That's she's your that your dad's responsible to take care of her. If he's not in the picture, still still that now you and your wife, as a team have to take care of her. Right. And so you have to be willing to deal with your guilt, because you're going to about walking away and feeling like you're not taking care of your mom. But can I just tell you this? That's a an emotional decision.

Mary Alessi:
Yes. That you're going to have to make without the emotions.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
Because you just can't go right.

Mary Alessi:
That's really good.

Mary Alessi:
Excuse me. You can't go wrong by doing right. Right. There's a right way to do this. And you got to put your wife first. Yes. And then the two of you got to figure out a way to take care of your parents. Now as a woman, the wife, I would say please come to the table with a heart of understanding.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. For your husband who is dealing with some other issues. It's not just the money he's given to him. It's not just his time, not just making the phone calls and spending all the time on the phone. There's a lot of guilt that he's dealing with.

Mary Alessi:
That's tough. And I say it again, do you want it to work? Because if you want it to work, you'll do your part to get in there, get understanding with mercy and grace, and say, We can navigate through this, but we both have to come to the table 101.

Mary Alessi:
Mhmm.

Mary Alessi:
And if we need counseling, let's get counseling to help us navigate because, look, the truth is these are hard decisions.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
And people's hearts are involved.

Mary Alessi:
I I had to make the hardest choice of my young career at 36, 30 seven years of age to leave my dad, the workplace that I was working with my dad, leave and start on my own. And when I did that, that caused tremendous friction between he and I and we broke relationship for a while. Yeah. And that's just another part of my story that emotionally there was a period where I went through that brokenness and heartbreak. But then I was able to just get myself, my legs under me and start to rebuild who I was. Little did I know how that separation from him would allow me to be so connected to you. Right. That to this day, I feel so incomplete when I'm not around you, or you're not around me.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. I need you around me. None of that would have happened though, Mary.

Mary Alessi:
That's true.

Mary Alessi:
Had I not had some separation between me and my parents. Yeah. Which now that stability that I find with you and me being one allows me to go and us to go and have the emotional energy and everything else that's needed to take care of our moms.

Mary Alessi:
Yes. Yes.

Mary Alessi:
It's very, very true. So the point would be separate, leave,

Steve Alessi:
cleave to your spouse, get healthy, get strong,

Mary Alessi:
get get become one. Unified. Get unified, become one. And then, and when you're one, you're stronger to be able to then as the parents get older, take care of them along the way. Does that make sense?

Mary Alessi:
That's a drop the mic moment right there.

Mary Alessi:
Well, then I'm so thankful that you were able to join us for another episode of episode of the Family Businesses with the Alessis. Steve Alessi here with Mary Alessi. Hopefully, we've been able to help you leave and cleave and enjoy the best life and marriage you can. Thanks for joining us.

Chris Alessi:
You've just enjoyed another episode of the family business podcast with the Alessis, and we can't thank you enough for being a part of our podience today. Now that you've learned more about us, here's how you can join in in the family business. First, make sure you're following our podcast right now and download this episode so you can hear it at any time. Second, think of someone you know that might need or enjoy this episode and share it with them. You'll be helping them and helping us to spread the word about the family business. Third, go to alesseefamilybusiness.com and tap the ask the a lessee's button. This is really cool. You could use it to record a voicemail comment or question, and we can add your voice to our conversations.

Chris Alessi:
Finally, while you're on our page, tap the reviews tab, and you'll see a link to leave a review on Apple Podcasts. We love reading your reviews, and we might even share them on the show. Thanks again for joining us, and we'll see you next time at the Family Business with the Alessis, because family is everybody's business.