The Honor Code: What It's Really Like to Work for Your Father in Ministry | S5 E22

Chris Alessi: 0:53

Well, all right, everybody. I know you're not expecting to see me, but this is another episode of the family business with the Alessis, because family is everybody's business And I actually have the really cool honor and privilege. Neither one of us expected to do this, no, a couple hours ago. But I'm here with a good buddy of mine, a good friend, caleb Thomas, who also is a married son who works for his father in ministry. That's what binds us. That's why we're here today. Why don't you say hi to everybody?

Caleb Thomas: 1:21

Yeah, what's going on everybody? Chris, thank you so much for having me on the podcast man. I've seen it tuned in see what this is about And I have a genuine heart for this. Like you said, i get the chance to work for my dad. My name is Caleb. My wife's name is Liz, have an amazing son named Malachi. We got a daughter on the way, talia Sage. We're in Lakeland, florida, with Free Life Chapel. My parents, my pastors Scott and Cindy Thomas extremely grateful for what they've done. So we're actually the second generation of Thomas and Alessi friendships And just grateful for what we've been able to build on because of what our parents have done, not just in ministry but then also in relationally, standing on their shoulders.

Chris Alessi: 2:04

So some Metro lifers watching this might remember that your mom preached here a couple of times.

Caleb Thomas: 2:09

Yeah, she's probably the one that said I'm sorry for my accent, but I probably feel like home, especially down here in Miami. She probably said everybody needs a Puerto Rican aunt Yeah no, she's.

Chris Alessi: 2:18

What's funny is because my nickname around here is PC and I'm finding out today.

Caleb Thomas: 2:26

Yeah, so my mom in the office space at church we call her PC. So every time everybody's calling you, i'm literally like standing up, like looking for my mom, like asking for mom where she at, where she at.

Chris Alessi: 2:35

So it's fun So it's been a fun time. So he came down just to be a part, to really just connect and get some vacation time and all that And it was really cool. I'm going to say this to the guys in the background because we were at lunch breakfast this morning and his dad called him and he was like got to go, got to answer, and I'm like, ah, i know what that's like.

Caleb Thomas: 2:55

Over two guys is different.

Chris Alessi: 2:56

Two guys were still in that young adultish season of our lives. But we work for our dads And to kind of introduce why why we're doing a podcast together what we're talking about. So we've been uniquely bonded. We both have a lot of friends and colleagues who kind of do what we do same age season. Some work for dads, some don't. Some have dads in ministry, some don't. But we've been uniquely bonded because of the way we've really chosen to view our dads. And when I say uniquely chosen, most of it's because of who they are. It's not like we're being amazing and picking them, but you know, you kind of look at it biblically for a second. We see Rehaboam, grandson of David, son of Solomon, comes in and is immediately. They bring him this big question Hey, would you go a little easier on us? And he's like I got to get some counsel on it. Step, A solid step. One was good. I want to go get counsel, but he goes and he listens to the people. That would have given his dad counsel, so that would have been older. He denies that and he goes with his friends And while you and I part of the reason we're together is because we enjoy the back and forth counsel we receive from each other. We have still chosen the ones we're going to follow. We're going to follow our dads, that's it, and so that's what really binds us.

Caleb Thomas: 4:21

That's it man And kind of like one of the biggest things that I say. You alluded to it earlier it's not necessarily how amazing we are, but how amazing they are Like think about the reality. How great of a dad, how great of an example at home. We see them when they're off stage. I know what you say when you stub your toe. I know what you say when things don't go right. I know your facial reactions And I know what you say whenever you're in an altercation with somebody or something doesn't happen right. I know what you say when you're not on the podcast or you're not on social media. And I'm still willing to follow that. Yeah, i think that's a testament to the integrity, to being a Christian first. Yeah, i'm a pastor, it's one of the things that I get the chance to do, but I'm a Christ follower first. And the idea of I'm not following blindly because I want to be very open and aware to what they're doing, but my parents, i would literally follow them blindly. Yeah, you say turn.

Chris Alessi: 5:27

Sounds great. I think one of the things we've said on our many phone calls is we're comfortable with the idea that if we get to heaven and God's like why'd you do that? That was off. We're comfortable with saying God, i was listening to my dad, which means if I follow him and he ends up being wrong, i'd rather error on that than the other side of that coin. And really that goes to an honor principle, Yeah Right, Like which everybody on our audience is going to love the word honor by the way It's my favorite thing We were talking off podcasts.

Caleb Thomas: 5:58

There's a book on honor that I read that has literally completely changed my perspective of everything. Read it in 2020, completely changed everything And the idea that because we're not the number one and I don't want to be right now, i'm not grace to be the number one right now. Maybe when that mantle gets passed, i'll receive grace. Yeah, exactly, but it's. I don't have that grace because it's not my time for it, and that's okay, and it doesn't make us less than, or it's just not the time. But whatever, my, my job is to honor my leaders. Yeah, and for me, i'm benefited that I don't just honor you, i actually trust you to. There's a, there's a difference. I'm not just a bang, but I believe in what you're saying And I think that's just that's what makes it so different. Not better, worse than. But It's my forte, it's what I want, it's what you enjoy, it's what I want.

Chris Alessi: 6:53

It's definitely the way you enjoy your food being cooked, and I think that's one of the hard balances for us as sons, because there is something unique about our dads. There is, yes, we can look at our dads and some others and say, man, i'm grateful I have mine. Yes, you know I wouldn't pick another one, but there's also a side of that. That's a choice we made. Yes, i think what binds us is not that our dads are awesome. What binds us is that we've made that choice. Yes, so I was mentioned to you off camera that my dad has always asked me like hey, do you ever feel like because you know you work for your dad that you're not your own man? When I surveyed the landscape of everybody I went to Bible college with and this is not a shot at anybody But when I kind of survey the landscape of guys who are doing what I'm doing, or same age group doing what we're doing, i'm like, if anything, having my dad is my superpower. Yes, it's the. It's the one tool in my tool belt that no one else has, and that that that to me there's a lot of guys who don't realize, okay, maybe, maybe their dads aren't everything, ours are. Yeah, but you still can't rob your tool belt of your dad, especially in this context. And I know there are guys and we could sit here and create all the justifications of people who might not fit this bill. But when, when you choose to honor your dad, your mom, your parent, whether you work for them or not, when you choose to honor them, you kind of plant your feet in the present for real. Yes, if you dishonor them, you kind of don't actually get to be in this moment And we were talking about it at breakfast how you know, even when you honor whoever's in front of you, because dishonor quickly share about that dishonor principle.

Caleb Thomas: 8:48

Yeah, so it got it from Pastor John Bavir And he talks about what is dishonor and his definition of it in the book Honors Reward is dishonoring is treating anybody as ordinary or average. So if you and I having a conversation and I'm just texting somebody random where I'm scrolling through social media and we're having a conversation, i'm dishonoring you in that moment because I'm treating our conversation as just another conversation. It's almost flipping, it's, it's whatever, and so I'm dishonoring somebody. So then to honor somebody is to treat them above average.

Chris Alessi: 9:23

Yeah, and in that when you do that, you're fully present in the moment that. So you were using the example of, like you're buying groceries, you're going to stop to acknowledge the person bagging your groceries. Why, i'm not going to dishonor that person, so it's not that they're deserving of all this honor. Like the Bible says, count those leaders you know worthy of double, but they don't deserve my dishonor. And that that is what brings you into that moment. You are somebody, you are paying for your groceries, you're looking at somebody that are there right. So that choice to do that with our, with our fathers, yeah, it is a choice, the same way that choosing to disregard your Uber driver or you know, that's a choice. You can disregard them, choosing to regard them as what kind of plants your feet. And I'm thinking about it. And you know, we know, there's a lot of people on this podcast who really aren't into the whole church world just yet, or maybe at all. But when you look at the way that God says, hey, i'm the God of Abraham, isaac and Jacob. None of those three men are perfect, and what binds those three men is not only bloodline but apparently who they chose to go to. When everything was falling apart. God was not saying, hey, abraham is perfect, isaac's perfect, jacob's perfect, and that's why I'm their God. Right, it's really more like, at the end of the day, abraham called on me and trusted me. At the end of the day, isaac called on me, trusted me. At the end of the day, jacob, you can do the same And I think when you choose to disregard your father, you don't realize it, but you also disregard your father's. God, bro, no that's exactly it.

Caleb Thomas: 10:55

So anytime that I've been in an instance where I notice or let's be real, my wife calls me out, let's be real, my wife calls me out and lets me know man, like you kind of been kind of short with people or maybe you haven't been honoring people as much Anytime I'm not honoring somebody, i've first already dishonored God. The only reason why my wife believes me, trusts me as a husband, as a father to our kids, is because of my relationship with Jesus. That's the only thing that gives me any kind of credibility. And so I honor people because I'm honorable. You said the idea of it's not that you have to earn my honor. No, i'm honoring you because I honor God, and God says for us to honor people. Now, respect, influence. You don't just get my influence off rib. No, there's a credibility that goes through, and that's why I would have honored a leader, no matter what, if I was in the job. If I'm in the construction world, i'm gonna have a GC that's sitting over top of me, my father-in-law. He owns his own company And so say I went to work for him. He would be a boss. If I'm in landscape, i would have somebody, a crew manager or something. I used to work at a warehouse right Where I would stack and restack pallets all day. I had a boss for my shift, and then I had a manager, then I had a big boss. So we have all these different bosses. So I'm going to submit an honor to somebody. I'm just grateful I get to do it to somebody that not only do I choose to honor but I also respect, because I've been able to see this for 20 years. I'm 27 now And for 27 years my dad's far from perfect, but man, he's perfectly pursuing And that's what I can buy into.

Chris Alessi: 12:42

And so that's the thing that I would really want people to know. It's not that we I have it easier with my dad. If anything I have a harder. It's different, but for whatever reason, i'm just thinking of this now And this just goes to show you how much time I spend in Netflix. But when you a lot of people don't like the office, they show the office. They don't like it because of Michael Scott in season one. Look at that season, the first introduction of Michael Scott, and they don't like him. Now, meanwhile, in his very last episode it's very last episode Jim looks at him and can't even say bye, won't allow himself to say bye, but he says you're the best boss I ever had. The last episode ends with him throwing out the the mug world's best boss And he throws that out because he bought it for himself. Meanwhile, they ended up giving him something that was basically saying they actually said you are our best boss. So this guy, who the world disregarded because of the first, you know, introduction to him, ends up winning everybody over. Why is that? Because you watch through this time of seven seasons. You watch him imperfectly, give all of himself to his staff. You watch him even though he's the most offensive person, by accident, he's also the one who's gonna show up to Pam's art show at the end of it and actually be in awe of what she did. And when you disregard a father, a leader, an authority figure, when you disregard them because of their season one, you disregard them because of the offensive part. You disregard them because of the things that are hard you also lose the other part. You lose the part of a father who's like nobody's gonna go through a wall more for you than your dad will. So whenever that was a great little office reference, by the way, listen, that was great.

Caleb Thomas: 14:35

I've never seen the office. Whoa my gosh. Maybe because of season one. I was also one that was judging And so maybe You gotta push through, brother, maybe okay. so Pastor Chris PC's advice is to watch the office. For me to grow my biblical understanding of honor is to watch the office cool.

Chris Alessi: 14:53

Let my pastor know that It's in every one of my books.

Caleb Thomas: 14:57

Why are you in the office watching Netflix? This is studying. I'm trying to grow my honor. right now, i'm trying to be a better person. But so whenever I first got hired on in 2018 is when I came in full time. I was working part time at the church, but when I came in full time was 2018. The first question, before they actually fully hired me, they said Hib, what church do you wanna go to? You're gonna be on staff somewhere. Where do you wanna go learn from? We'll send you there for a couple of years. We'll use any and every connection that we have. We'll ask any and every favor that we have, whether we have one to ask for or not. We'll do whatever we can to get you at a church, for you to learn, for you to do something. Let's go. There are so many incredible churches out there right now, so many incredible leaders out there. I could start name dropping, but I'm gonna get in trouble because then I'm gonna forget one later and then be mad. There's so many, and then there's the unknowns that are crushing it as well. But when they asked me that question, it was who do I wanna submit to? I'm well aware that my parents becoming my boss, and especially in the room that we operate in. where's the church world actually move into my spiritual parents as well, which takes a whole another dynamic, a whole another essence of honor. They now have a right to call you out on everything, bro. so I'm married, i'm no longer living at your house, but I'm abiding by your rules. Yeah, now, it's not your opinion of how the dishes need to get done, but it's the rules of this, is the biblical standard, and I will call you out Really. I'll call you up, cause whenever you wanna get mediocre or whenever you wanna go for complacency, i'm gonna call you up to excellence, which is what God died to give us. right? I died to give you life, and life more abundant. And if I try to do this thing on my own, i'm a very intrinsically motivated person. I don't need a lot of external motivation. When I set my mind to something, i'm gonna do it. But even at that, i can also justify everything that I do. And if I was gonna have somebody that was gonna call me out, call me up, help me be better, be specific with me on specific things that I can grow, who better than someone who has literally raised me, who knows my ins and outs, if I was to go somewhere else? and again, this is just for me personally. So I'm not saying if you go somewhere else, if you're working somewhere else, that it's wrong or that you're not able to get this cause. I believe that there's incredible leaders that are getting this, but we're talking about the perspective that you and I have. Who knows what I need to work on more. Day one, my dad said cool, you're gonna be here. awesome, i'm excited. Here's where I need you to grow, cause you're doing a terrible job at this. Caleb, your face during staff meetings are horrendous.

Chris Alessi: 17:43

Dude, that was me during baptisms, by the way.

Caleb Thomas: 17:46

I'd baptize people like. Listen. No, all the so from the gathering instances, yes, but then even like interpersonally man, we're in staff meeting and my face is showing things. Am I dad after staff meetings? But, caleb, what are you doing, bro? you're misrepresenting yourself. Get out of it. I take it from him because he knows my faces. He grew up like some of my faces. Are his faces Like he-?

Chris Alessi: 18:13

Most of what's in me was in him, Yeah.

Caleb Thomas: 18:14

I'm an impersonator of my dad. While I find my voice, a lot of what I say is him. I see myself preaching on stage and how I hold a microphone, how I walk, the antics that I do, the facial expressions, my voice inflections are very much my mom and dad.

Chris Alessi: 18:33

The last two Sundays I've walked into church and someone has come to me, someone my age. I said dude, you look great. You know, you look just like your dad The last two Sundays. So let's do this because obviously we could sit here and genuinly praise our parents, because they genuinely deserve it, cause we already do this. Because we are most of our phone calls are this, but you know, we've all heard it It's not submission until you disagree. Yeah, it's not submission until you're like I really think we should go that way. But I'm going to choose to go that way And I kind of feel like people try to say that the past is dead. I don't believe it is. I think the past is fully alive And I can choose to unredeem it. With one action today, you could have 10 years of a great marriage. I can choose to do something today that eradicates those 10 years 100%. So every single time we are faced with the obstacle of submission. If I choose to not submit, i throw out the entire history of submission and by then become somebody who could never submit Cause I didn't do it one time. At the same time, if I choose to continue following and continue following, even if my past is I've had issues with that, i've had issues with mom If I choose today to say look, i'm going to honor the part of you that goes to God at the end of the day. If I choose to honor that, i can start to redeem a past And I think we actually have talked about this in our phone calls that part of our ability to sit here and praise them is because we learn how to hold what they don't do great. We no longer hold that against them Because we're also getting a little time in our own life to see I'm not that great at a lot of things either.

Caleb Thomas: 20:22

Bro. So all right. So a lot right there. Couple things Number one I hear all the time that I don't like to submit. I don't like to submit Culturally. Submission is like a cuss word. It's almost worse now than some cuss words in certain circles. Okay so I'm either going to submit to somebody who's trying to help me grow or I'm going to submit to a stupid idea that I have. But I submit every day. The audience, every one of you that watch this, you're submitting every day. What we have to decide is what are we submitting to? Who are we submitting to? It's a good point. It's not whether or not I'm going to submit. We say this at our church and this is a phrase that my dad says all the time. This is the last time I'm going to give you credit for it. Every after time I've done it, it's mine. It says your biggest battle is your next thought. My biggest battle in life is my very next thought, and what I do with that next thought determines three years, five years, seven years down the line. So, when it comes to how do I handle whenever we've had a disagreement, maybe personally, and then now we're in the workplace And now, as dad, we were having a conversation as father and son and I didn't agree with something. But now, as pastor, you're telling me I need to do something. You're bringing a correction to me. What do I do? How do I handle those things? Or do you kind of You call mom? If only that worked for me. I was Puerto Rican, bro. That don't work for nothing. Or?

Chris Alessi: 21:50

it doesn't work for you either. It worked more when I was younger, yeah, That lesson works.

Caleb Thomas: 21:56

Maybe it's because I was cute back in the day and I saw my son, but now I just get my kid involved, just show them my son. But then also the term goes. If I'm in a staff meeting, or maybe man pastor calls me into the office because there was an encounter that I had in church that maybe I didn't handle it as well. And I firmly believe our biggest battles in life not just our very next thought, i think the biggest battles that we go through is not between right and wrong, but between better and best, mediocrity or excellence, getting the job done or doing the job with excellence, and so maybe I didn't handle something the best. And so he's telling me hey, man, you need to do this different, you need to do this different. And because of how long our parents have been doing it, there's a certain thing that experience shows you that, although I don't understand it, and it might've worked this time, they're trying to see it worked this time. It won't work every time. I'm glad there's no casualties this time, but keep going. And I get tight with them because of what he said or he got onto me. But then we have family dinner that night because it's Thanksgiving. So what do those dynamics do? I think there's a couple of things like for me, like one, having somebody that you can talk to and process with understanding that, although I work for my dad, i am 100% human And I have emotions, and emotions aren't a bad thing. God gave us an emotion for a reason Like use your emotions. However, emotions don't sit in the driver's seat of my life, and so what can I do to properly and with honor, express my emotions of how I'm feeling? because brushing it under the rug doesn't work either, cause I've tried to do that before And then this big thing explodes over the smallest thing. It's like no, you don't understand, it was cause of this small thing And it's like well, why didn't you bring it up beforehand? Like don't bring up the path Like that was done. You said it was good, so it's good, so let's keep walking. So I think there's a certain thing that maturity shows you Get some voices that are able to speak into your life, but then also being able to. For me, one of the biggest things is being able to see how is my dad doing. I'm the third generation preacher pastor in my family. My grandfather, glenn Thomas. I didn't know that. Yeah, my grandfather.

Chris Alessi: 24:09

So we're the same.

Caleb Thomas: 24:10

Bro, when I tell you we're literally I am blessed to be standing on the shoulders of the shoulders of my grandparents, glenn and Joyce Thomas. They will probably not watch this cause. I don't know if they know how to work YouTube, but they are my people And they were an evangelist all throughout the state of Virginia with the denomination And man you talk about old school brick and mortar like built his churches, built the parsonage. That's what they did. My dad learned from his dad And he wasn't on staff with him. But let's be real. Under 18 years old, you were just free church labor. Yep, you're doing whatever. Something needs to get painted. Cool Pastors, kids, summertime Oh, you got an internship at the church.

Chris Alessi: 24:54

Like my summer camps were nine to five in the office. My parents, Yeah, we're here, but at the same time, how much fun were those times. It's the best part of my life.

Caleb Thomas: 25:02

But I'm with my dad and with my mom. I'm going out to eat with them hanging out. I'm able to do my own thing, but I'm being able. I tell you the thing for me, like one of my biggest driving forces, is I'm not a fear motivated guy. My biggest fear is disappointment. I don't I could get emotional thinking about it. I don't want to disappoint my parents. Like literally thinking about it right now makes me tear up because I see how much they've poured into me and how much they've poured into the ministry. I get to add value, even if it's my new, to something that they've literally given their life towards.

Chris Alessi: 25:41

And now you've got a one year old and you have a baby being born, i'm setting up a legacy You literally. By the way, their child is about to be born on the day that I'm hoping mine is born. So our due date's the 16th, yours is the 20th, but they're having your baby born on the 13th. I'm hoping mine is born on the 13th because of Marino and all that. But I think that's kind of what we're both recognizing is that it is the relationship with our father that proves what we're a part of is much bigger than we thought. Yes, and we start to find out that individuality and all that for its own sake is worthless. Yes, like me, just being myself and doing it my way for its own sake doesn't have a great harvest completely, but if I can become a really good follower, like a great follower and who better to follow than the one who's gonna care for me more than anybody else? There was one time when I was really getting like I was getting, i'm gonna leave, i'm out, like you don't know what you have in me. Like, is that that? My dad's like all right, where are you gonna go work tomorrow? that will give you everything you have here. And I got the idea of walking into one of these churches at the time. That I thought was great, and I'm like I will be a visitor to them, like a visitor at our church, knowing nothing. Why would I give that up? So, when you and forget the future, just what I have now, exactly So, recognizing that it's easy to say that whole thing about like the green grass is greener, grass is greener wherever you water it. The reality of it is is there is so much, exactly where I am, i don't have to go anywhere. But it's kind of like the law of trade-offs that John Maxwell talks about The minute I make that trade, i don't get the value of the trade. Yet I only get the value, i only feel the loss because I traded it. So I feel the loss of the trade before I feel the value. And I think as sons we could say that We definitely feel the loss while our other boys aren't getting told off, our other boys aren't being corrected because their car is not clean enough on the way to church, they're not being told. Hey, i happen to notice this one thing about ABC get that right And you're like what does that have to do with anything we're talking about here? But so I feel the sting of that, but I also I get the benefit of a long-term harvest that I literally will not be able to get anywhere else. I have a lot of friends who did everything right but because they weren't working for a parent, they had to go somewhere else after a 10-year season. Because the Bible does say there are many gods, few fathers, but the truth is there's many followers but there's even fewer sons. And you gotta stick around and say where can I stay a son? Because I want my son to be a son For sure And he won't. If I can't do that So kind of in the season where I am both leading at the highest capacity of my entire life and following at the highest capacity I've ever followed, I think we, i think, if we're not careful, culture in big C culture, right Capital C culture will mislead and misconstrued.

Caleb Thomas: 29:05

What leadership is? The highest leader is the first servant. Jesus, i did not come to be served, but to serve You were saying that to be a great leader you had to be a great follower. Even Jesus followed God. Yeah, but he followed. So the idea of I'm gonna at some point in time get out of this thing of following the reality is this there is a time, dad, no time soon there's a time where the mantle will get passed. As long as I don't screw anything up and do what Caleb can potentially do on his own right, if I stay honoring, if I stay honoring to God, honoring to the church, family, my pastors, mantle will get passed. That does not diminish, then, my father's voice from my life, just cause he's no longer a leader. John Maxwell talks about the different levels of leadership, and positional leadership is only the first level. It's not cause you're my boss, it's not cause you're my pastor. I call you a title that I don't call anybody else, but God, dad, father, see, only one, see only other person that I will ever use that title for, yeah, is my God, and my earthly father. Yeah, so if I think I truly believe the idea of honoring your parents, i think, yes, that goes from a very humanistic kind of a room, but I also think your spiritual parents, I also think who are those people that are investing into you more than anything else. I love watching other pastors on YouTube. I love watching and seeing what the ministries are. It feeds me. I love it. I love the different perspectives. I love all that. I will never listen to somebody more than I listen to my dad or my pastor, ever One. Because the culture, the synergy, the DNA of that church. Number two none of these other pastors know my birthday. That guy does. Nobody knows what I need to grow in. No one else would know. That guy does. No one else will take personal stock in your kid. And I fully believe. I fully believe that God honors honor. And it might not be the thing that I need to hear, might not be the way that I needed it said and it might not be the way that I would have scripted it out, but God will give me everything that I need, plus the things that I don't even know to ask for when I properly honor. I'm just grateful that through my honor, i'm able for it to be my parents Cause it means so much more.

Chris Alessi: 31:53

And it eventually makes those thanksgivings and all that even sweeter. And so, as we're bringing this thing to a close, cause the letters turned red? I think what you're seeing here is two sons constantly still processing what it means to work for dad, because that eventually shifts too And it becomes more of a we're working together And eventually there's even a switch there. But one of the things that we hear some of the most successful people on the planet one of the things that they do is they limit the amount of decisions they're gonna make on a daily basis, so they wear the same thing every day. They stop processing what they're gonna wear. Decision overload. What you see here are two sons who have stopped processing whether or not their fathers are the one they're gonna listen to. We've just stopped processing they were going to. Now I'm still gonna process a lot on this timeframe, like the process, all of the leadership and the nuggets I've gotta make. I've gotta figure that all out. But I have put aside the. Am I going?

Caleb Thomas: 32:49

to submit. I know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna figure out how I'm gonna do it, But I at least no. But the destination is set. We'll figure out the route, but the destination is set, and that's I'm following my dad.

Chris Alessi: 33:01

I said this off camera. but if he came and said, hey, i really do believe the Lord said to cut your right arm off for the gospel, i'd say, all right, man, where's the knife? But I wanted to just take a moment and I wanna, i wanna, thank actually I wanna ask this if you're watching this what if you took a minute to process what life would look like If you put whether or not you're in the right place or the right family, or if you're following the right people? what if you just put that to bed for one year of your life and just followed? I wonder what your life would look like. But I also wanna thank Pastor Scott and Cindy, and then your wife, liz, and your boy Malachi for letting us have you here today on the podcast, because it's really good for everyone to see that our family business isn't the only one. I really don't like when people say the churches are. People are leaving churches left and right and the faith is shrinking, and none of that's true. This is proof there are more for us than against us.

Caleb Thomas: 33:55

That's it, and whatever you look for, you're gonna be able to find, and so that's what I would encourage If you want to find a positive way or a different perspective of how to make things work. Maybe you're in a father-son relationship, mother-daughter, or for us I mean, i know our wives, the in-laws work for the in-laws, which is a complete different dynamic that I can't give account for. Nope, because that brings its own troubles, but also its own reward and its own graces in our wives For show and list. They're graced for that. But if you want to figure out another way to make this happen, how can I change my perspective? maybe in doing the inventory that you just said, you realize maybe there's more of my preferences than what's right and what's wrong. I would just encourage you start writing down the positives. Whatever you look for, you're gonna be able to find, and you might only start off with one positive at first, but I guarantee you, as time goes on, as you continue to identify, that you're gonna be able to have a long list of That's good, how beneficial this is.

Chris Alessi: 34:58

That's really good. Well, thanks for being here, man.

Caleb Thomas: 35:01

This has been really great, thank you, sir.

Chris Alessi: 35:02

It's been another phenomenal episode of the Family Business with the Alessi's, because family is everybody's business. Take care, have a good one. You've just enjoyed another episode of the Family Business Podcast with the Alessi's and we can't thank you enough for being a part of our audience today. Now that you've learned more about us, here's how you can join in in the family business. First, make sure you're following our podcast right now and download this episode so you can hear it at any time. Second, think of someone you know that might need or enjoy this episode and share it with them. You'll be helping them and helping us to spread the word about the family business. Third, go to alessifamilybusinesscom and tap the Ask the Alessi's button. This is really cool. You can use it to record a voicemail comment or question and we can add your voice to our conversations. Finally, while you're on our page, tap the Reviews tab and you'll see a link to leave a review on Apple Podcasts. We love reading your reviews and we might even share them on the show. Thanks again for joining us and we'll see you next time at the Family Business with the Alessi's, because family is everybody's business.